Btw, this is me testing the limits of kbin's microblog feature, so the following post will be long. I will post a TLDR at the end.
It has been nearly a month since I've first joined #fediverse. Even before the #reddit exodus, I was already growing tired of the site for the fact that despite how large the communities were, they were very cold and impersonal. There was also the fact that for the #queer community at least, we had been siloed off from the rest of reddit, because nearly every topic involving #LGBTQ issues were very often met with hostility by a good amount of users, often followed by a locked topic. It was even getting to the point where I didn't even feel safe in the some of the more socially liberal spaces.
The fact that mods were being stripped of some of the few tools they had to keep their communities hospitable, I knew the writing was on the wall. I tried many reddit alternatives during the blackout, including #raddle and #tildes. But once I figured out how #kbin, #mastodon, and #lemmy worked, I found myself feeling right at home on the fediverse.
I think the main reason why is because many of the people here are misfits from other platforms. Many of the users on mastodon are former twitter users who were driven off by the corporate culture of twitter, and later by Elon Musk and the poisoning of the platform. Others are former redditors like me who found platforms like lemmy, and are in the midst of trying to rebuild the community they once had on thier former platform.
Fediverse definitely doesn't feel "mainstream" like the sites that many of us come from , but perhaps that is part of the appeal, and why I have taken to it far quicker than any other social platform I have tried in the past. I'm just hoping as the fediverse continues to grow and attract new users, that it doesn't lose it's quirky and experimental spirit.
TLDR: I like fediverse. It's weird, quirky, and I feel more open here than I was ever able to be on reddit. Don't ever change.
I feel like the reason #Mastodon, and the #Fediverse at large, aren't taking off has to do with the fact that they're actually social networks. People don't seem to want a social network, they want content platforms. People aren't using #Twitter or #Threads or #TikTok to keep up with their friends these days, they're using these apps to entertain themselves. And since #Facebook and every other platform that used to be a social network began pivoting toward content promotion, I think society has forgotten what a social network is supposed to actually be anymore.
@Chozo the only point I disagree with is that people don't want a social media platform anymore. I think they do, I just think they have forgotten that's what social media is for. Considering there is zero advertising for this platform and a technical set up, the growth and daily activity of it is pretty impressive and hasn't slowed in months.
I've met more interesting people in 8 months here than I did 12 years on twitter. I hope others get a chance to see that value.
Taking a break from all the other anti-Reddit anti-Meta posts to note how much better kbin has gotten in just a short amount of time! Love the new layout and we're finally seeing lots of content from everywhere in the verse. Thanks to @ernest for all your hard work.
I've been thinking a bit about this post regarding #Mastodon's responsibility to be compatible with the #threadiverse (#ActivityPub thread aggregators like #Lemmy & #Kbin). Right now, a thread from Lemmy or Kbin usually federates to Mastodon with truncated text and a link to the actual thread. However, many want Mastodon to be more compatible with threads so that the people over on Mastodon interact with the threadiverse more.
I was initially in agreement as a Kbin user. But having given it some thought, I think this is an unwise approach that'll only serve to overcomplicate platforms on the #fediverse. Yes, people on Mastodon should promote other parts of the fediverse (and vice versa), but complete interoperability shouldn't be expected of every platform.
As much as many would like it, you can't have long-form video from PeerTube, images from Pixelfed, threads from Kbin, blogs from Writefreely, etc. all neatly fit in a microblog feed. These are different formats made for different platforms, and the people making them are expecting them to be interacted with in completely different ways. When someone makes a thread in a Lemmy community, they're probably expecting that the people who are going to see and interact with the thread are people that want to see threads and are thus on a Lemmy instance (or another thread aggregator). If someone from Mastodon were to interact with it as if it were a microblog post, there'd be a big mismatch. People interact with microblogs differently than they do with threads — that's why they're separate to begin with. You don't see everyone on Twitter also wanting to use to Reddit because people who want microblogs don't necessarily want Reddit-style threads, and vice versa.
The other option, then, is to separate these different formats into different feeds or otherwise make them clearly distinct from one another. Kbin does this by separating threads and microblog posts into two tabs. While you can view both in the "All Content" tab if you'd like, they're styled differently enough that it's very clear when you're looking at a thread and when you're looking at a microblog post. This distinction lets users treat threads like threads and microblog posts like microblog posts, which is really helpful since the two formats serve different purposes and have different audiences. This option — clear distinction — is a great way to solve the conundrum I've been talking about… if your platform is meant for viewing all these different kinds of content to begin with.
And that's what it really comes down to imo. Mastodon is a platform for microblogging. Most people go to Mastodon because they want a Twitter alternative, not a Twitter alternative that's also an Instagram alternative and a Reddit alternative and a YouTube alternative. Even if you put these different content types in separate tabs, it would inevitably make things seem more confusing and thus raise the barrier of entry. Add a Videos tab to Mastodon to view stuff on PeerTube, and people are inevitably going to go, "Wait, what's this? Is this like YouTube? I thought this was just a Twitter alternative! This all seems too complicated," even if you tell them to ignore it.
It's probably best to leave Mastodon as it is: a microblogging platform that has some limited federation with other formats. The way Kbin threads currently display on Mastodon is fine. In fact, when I post a Kbin thread, I'm expecting it to be viewed via a thread aggregator. If people on Mastodon were part of the target audience, I would've made a microblog post.
Now, if you want to make something that lets you view everything on the fediverse via different tabs, feel free. As aforementioned, Kbin supports both threads and microblogs, though it comes with some challenges (e.g., trying to fit magazine-less microblog posts into Kbin's magazine system). However, this doesn't mean every platform on the fediverse needs to seamlessly incorporate everything else. I'd love people on Mastodon to promote and even try out Lemmy & Kbin more, but that doesn't mean Mastodon needs to also become a thread aggregator.
This isn't a hurdle because people typically aren't going to the fediverse with the idea of "I want a single app for all my social media." That's not how social media works outside the fediverse, so it's not really going to be a surprise that the Twitter replacement is a Twitter replacement and not one for 5 other platforms. If someone really wants to view Reddit-style threads, they're straight up better of making an account on a different platform (just like they would make a different account for Reddit) because Mastodon is a microblogging site.
Even the best attempt to incorporate all these different types of content into Mastodon is going to further complicate the platform and make more people dismiss Mastodon as too complicated of a Twitter alternative. This isn't a situation where there's no harm at best. And the potential benefit? Lemmy comments having the occasional Mastodon user?
Mastodon itself is a good enough introduction to ActivityPub without needing to make it support other things. It shows how people on different servers can share & interact with a pool of media through the same protocol. When people learn about other platforms on the fediverse, they can go check those out. Just promoting the platforms will do the job fine without complicating people's entry into the fediverse.
I've noticed that a lot of people on the #fediverse aren't particularly welcoming to those who don't initially get it or have trouble with it. You'd think that if multiple people say they have trouble picking an instance, it might be a genuine barrier to entry that we need to consider when introducing them to the fediverse. But no, instead of suggesting an instance to get rid of that barrier everyone gives unhelpful advice like "just pick one" or "it's not that hard." We'd have a much easier time getting people on the fediverse if there weren't so many people with this attitude of "the fediverse is simple, and the people who don't get it are lazy and should try harder."
The issue is that there isn’t really anything more to choosing an instance than just picking one though, and we don’t want to funnel every new user to a single instance lest this end up becoming just reddit with extra steps. Or the reccomended instance gets flooded with more traffic than it can handle.
At most, a new user may want to look at what instances have defederated from the one they want to sign up on, but that’s a concept that isn’t going to make sense to someone who is already having trouble understanding “sign up somewhere, interact with everywhere” setup.
Numerous guides to all of this have been created. Rather than tilting at windmills (you will never stop people from being rude online, best to just accept it) your effort would be better spent being the friendly guiding hand. That’s far more effective than trying to call out people who probably don’t care whether we’re attracting more users or not.
@wizardbeard I'd argue that telling people to join largest (or at least a larger) instance isn't a bad thing. If I was telling someone to join Kbin, I'd tell them to just pick kbin.social. Later on, once they get accustomed to fediverse and understand the idea better, they can go to a smaller instance if they want
(e.g., if it's focused on a topic you like, it has features or moderation policies you prefer, or you just want to take some load off the larger instance). Having people initially go to larger, more established instances — where the experience tends to be more approachable due to more active hosts, more old content being federated, a larger community within the instance, etc. — greatly reduces the barrier to entry.
And the danger of a lot of people on a single instance is really exaggerated. If things go badly on, say, a Lemmy instance that most people are on, they can just move to another one with the same features, same UI, and similar access to content. It's not like Reddit or Twitter where moving means you're missing out on a ton.
You're right that it's usually better to be the change you want to see as opposed to simply criticizing others, but I think it's still important to discuss how we introduce people to the fediverse.
So glad that stupid meme-of-the-week trends are finding their way over here from Reddit, too. I just love reading 50+ instances of the same unfunny joke in a row.
So glad the complaint posts moved here from reddit. I just love reading the same complaint over and over again instead of blocking communities or users.
@happyspark I had to just block a handful of the top communities because they were just overwhelming my feed.
Hopefully there'll be some optimizations to the sorting algo soon. I'd love to see the content from those communities, but not only that content. They're just so active that they snuff out anything else, unfortunately.
Oddly, I don't feel disgusted about having a robust list of blocked users, communities, and domains on the fediverse. Instead it actually feels like I have some level of control over what I see, rather than say, "suggesting" to YouTube that I don't want to see more neo-nazi propaganda and hoping it actually listens to me.
I get what you mean. With how federation works I feel like instead of subscribing to communities I can almost do the inverse and block the ones I don’t like.
404's everywhere, "we're working on it" signs everywhere else.
Like sure, not being able to find my response in the pile of thread sounds like Linux problems, but how is this not loading faster and better than reddit?
@vkc Don't worry. In the near future, we'll be working on integrating with, among others, Peertube. For now, you can search for people from Peertube and follow their accounts, for example, "[email protected]." At some point, their content will start appearing in your feed ;) Enjoy.
I'm wondering if any of you need a virtual assistant. I'm Lynda from Nigeria, currently unemployed, and thought maybe someone here would be interested in employing me. I have experience working with an online institute as an admission counsellor.
I've been testing out Mbin on the kbin.run instance and it sure feels faster but it also feels empty and I'm pretty sure it's because Kbin / Mbin requires someone to have searched for a user or community/magazine before you can actually see it. Seems like this could hinder smaller instances in the long run.